Help me understand vegans and vegetarians. this is not meant to argue, i just want to better understand.?
No hard feelings at all, I just want to understand with more logic behind, ‘it’s more humane.’ For thousands of years now we have eaten meat. We have canine and incisor teeth, used for eating and ripping apart meat, and there is livestock that is used for there meat. We as humans, have farmed livestock and hunted animals for multiple uses since we have been able to stand up straight. During the age of ‘Lucy’, we ate mostly berries, and nuts, but yet also fish. As I see it, we have evolved into being omnivors. If we were supposed to be vegan/vegetarian, we would have all molar and premolar teeth, and would grind are teeth back and forth much like a cow would. Chickens, pigs, cows, goats, sheep, and more are raised for livestock. These animals would more then likely not even exist if it weren’t for human cultivation. So what I understand is, you just wouldn’t want these animals to exist at all because you don’t think we should eat them? They do not have the intellectual knowledge like that of a human. They may have feelings, but they aren’t aware. Yes, they treat animals inhumane, and I won’t eat certain brands of meat (ex. Perdue), but only because the added hormones and testosterone which are simply not healthy. Meat however, is healthy. Unless you are taking protein, planning and understanding what vitamins and such go in to your meals I don’t see how anyone can say not eating meat is healthy. Specially 100% vegan. And for those of you who say you were, ‘born vegan’. No, you were raised that way. You didn’t chose is, your parents did for you. Do you not think that if you keep picking tomatoes from a tomato plant, that it will not eventually wilt and die. How do trees know its time to shed there leaves, or how flowers know it’s time to germinate? Do they feel the cold, do they have a sence of time? How does a venus fly trap know a bug has landed inside of it? Can they feel it land on them, can they taste the acids in the bug?
What makes it a life stlye not a diet? How come some vegans will wear leather but not eat a cow?
What makes it a life stlye not a diet? How come some vegans will wear leather but not eat a cow?
Eating animals is not healthy. It is cruel to animals, depletes the planet’s resources, and causes human diseases such as cancers, diabetes, heart disease, high cholesterol, obesity and strokes.
I don’t feel right eating a creature that has been raised and bred only for me to eat. it’s how i feel and frankly i don’t feel a need to justify that further.
thing is, i have been to farms, i know how animals are slaughtered and i’ve gotten in touch with my food. i have looked into the eyes of a lamb, named it and then gotten it for sunday dinner. i’m not like your average consumer that has never seen a lamb or a chicken in real life.
many veggies are high in protein and it’s relatively simple to get your fill of them if you take one hour to see which ones are.
my parents and my whole family eats meat, this was entirely my decision, which i took as an adult.
It’s not whether its natural or that we’re really herbivores-
It’s the suffering involved and the global damage being done.
Meat simply isn’t green.
Also, to be vegan, you must adhere to the diet as well as
what you wear. Vegans don’t wear leather. At least not know-
ingly. When I found out some of my shoes had leather in them,
I gave them away.
Veganism is a lifestyle because it modifies your whole life.
You strive to not eat animal products, or own anything con-
taining animal products.
Soap, clothes, cleaners, medication, furniture, etc.
I agree with you. But I also abstain from feedlot meat.
I eat local products only. I have chickens, which I get both eggs and meat (and entertainment–I could watch them all day!) from. My meat and milk comes from a farm in my town that keeps the cows on pasture and allows the calves to remain with the herd (and their mothers) all day. This is humane, and it is farming done correctly.
Vegans who wear leather are actually strict vegetarians. They eat a vegan diet but don’t necessarily adhere to veganism in all aspects of their life.
Whether we were made to eat meat or not is irrelevant when choosing to go vegetarian. At least for me. True, humans have been eating meat for a long time, but the way we kill animals hasn’t stayed the same. The animals in factory farms are put through vast amounts of distress, not being able to feel the sun on their backs or be able to move a muscle their whole short lives. Chickens are fed antibiotics to grow faster, instead of letting it grow at it’s healthy, own pace. Basically, the way animals are raised for food isn’t the same as it was thousands of years ago. The killing methods aren’t the same either. Before, chickens could have a fast, non-painful death. Now, they’re being scalded alive, some still struggling to hold on even after.
Whilst raising animals for food we also are slowly destroying the planet, with all the animals using up thousands of gallons of water and whatnot. An animal on a “regular” farm would definitely not be wasting much water at all. Moving on…
Meat isn’t exactly healthy or unhealthy. People who choose to eat meat typically eat too much of it, and get too much protein. There are other much more healthy ways to get protein.
In the end, humans don’t need meat to survive, so why kill that cow? Why kill that chicken? Animals have feelings, they can feel pain. Oh and, they actually do have somewhat similar intellectual knowledge as humans. Just because they can’t necessarily talk doesn’t make them any less smart.
I’m not vegan, yet I buy cage free eggs and buy milk from local farms. Being vegan isn’t unhealthy. I actually want to be a vegan. I just can’t at this present moment. We’re the only species that drinks milk after the infant stage. And eggs… we only really eat them because of their taste. We don’t NEED eggs. That aside, it does get to me when some vegans think that eating eggs is just like eating a baby bird, because most eggs that we buy at the supermarket aren’t fertilized. (Hens don’t need a rooster the lay an egg.)
And the vegans you talk about, wearing leather but not eating a cow… they’re just hypocritical, I suppose.
Anyway. Both meat eaters and vegetarians and vegans make good points. What it all comes down to is personal preference.
this might make you go vegetarian: meatvideo.com
also
” What makes it a life stlye not a diet? How come some vegans will wear leather but not eat a cow?”
well some people do it for health reasons and others for ethical reasons it is very healthy look:
I went Vegetarian because I am against the inhumane way farm animals are raised and then slaughtered.
Basically, would you eat your pet dog or cat? That’s why vegans will not eat other animals. I am not a vegan, but sometimes do have a hard time keeping meat down, if I ever think about where it came from. I used to have chickens as pets when I was a kid, and up until very recently, did not eat chicken. As for the health factor, it is not healthier to be vegan unless you grow your own food or know exactly where it comes from due to all of the genetic alterations done to produce. Fruits and veggies are a lot less healthy than they used to be. On the other hand, so is meat. For vegans to get protein, fruits and veggies have it, just not nearly as much as they used to because of the genetic alterations, so in order for a vegan to be receiving what they actually need in a day, they actually need to eat more food than those who choose to eat meat.
I do not see it as a lifestyle. It is more than just a diet, but I don’t think it could necessarily be considered a lifestyle. Just avoiding certain foods and clothing does not make for a lifestyle. I avoid clothes that make my butt look big and foods that I don’t like, but it is not a lifestyle – just a choice. I see it to be the same – a choice, not a lifestyle. Now, if you’re living on a farm and only using and consuming what you grow yourself, whilst not ever entering a grocery store, that’s a lifestyle. It’s called being Amish.
“As I see it, we have evolved into being omnivors”
I agree. We are omnivores. We can eat a diet high in meat or vegan or anywhere in between. We also have the resources to make wise decisions about what we eat.
“These animals would more then likely not even exist if it weren’t for human cultivation.”
Actually a lot of them would exist in their natural form. Our domesticated livestock are all descended from wild animals. We have enough wild animals to worry about conserving, instead of some degraded inbred farm animals. A sustainable diet is a good way to help conserve nature.
“They do not have the intellectual knowledge like that of a human.”
A moot point. A child doesn’t have the intellectual capacity of an adult. Handicapped people may have reduced intellectual capacity. I don’t believe them any more deserving of pain or exploitation on the grounds that we are mentally “superior.” If someone feels emotions and physical pain their knowledge is beside the point.
“Unless you are taking protein, planning and understanding what vitamins and such go in to your meals I don’t see how anyone can say not eating meat is healthy.”
I haven’t eaten meat in 15 years and I’m better off than most people my age. Doctors, professionals, athletes, researchers…many have concluded that a vegetarian or vegan diet can be perfectly healthy. I’ve educated myself enough to take care of my nutritional needs, and it’s not even that much work really.
Picking fruit off a plant doesn’t usually hurt it. Plants evolved to make fruit so that it would be eaten and moved around so the seeds can germinate elsewhere. I’m not sure that I understand what point you’re trying to make there.
So your logic is basically the same tired logic that others have already said “we have been doing it for a while”
We have raped womyn and children for thousands of years, we have gone to war over silly things for thousands of years we do all sorts of horrible things and many of them we have been doing them for thousands of years. Doing something for a while doesn’t ever make it ok or right.
I am sick and tired of people like you using that logic…it is a backwards as you can get. Humyns are supposed to evolve but all we have been doing is devolving. We cannot adapt to this world so we do things to destroy it and have basically been forcing the world to adapt to us which is the wrong way to go about things.
Saying that animals are not aware or whatever assumptions you have made about animals shows even more clearly some of us are devolving faster. We use those excuses only because we want to continue exploiting animals. “I choose not to understand animals because I want to exploit them” It is based in pure selfishness, immaturity and ignorance. No animals do the horrible things we do to each other and to almost all other species. They don’t have drug gangs, they don’t have wars they don’t murder trillions of other species for food, clothing, household products, entertainment…, they don’t build weapons and tools to kill a lot of beings quickly, they don’t go destroying the planet like we do. Even the “worst” of the carnivorous species doesn’t even come within a mile of us.
Going on to your other points. What in meat is so healthy? It is a product that requires more energy and nutrients from our body to digest through our long long long long long digestive system (which doesn’t work well for eating meat) We actually don’t have the teeth to rip apart flesh very well (we can do it but our teeth are fairly dull)
Milk is made for babies, the babies of the mother who made them. Once babies are old enough that they don’t need milk they stop drinking it. The fact we take milk from someone else’s mother from a totally different species seems a bit off, no? It has nothing for us that is healthy and like all animal products can rob our bodies of essential nutrients and milk especially can cause severe bone problems.
Really the only reason people think of eating animals as healthy is because the industry that uses them tells us this, they have always made claims about their products being healthy or good for you, not because they are but simply because they want your money and want to sell more product. Then after a while people just assume since we have said it is healthy for so long it is healthy.
If you looked at the number of meat eaters with health problems compared to the number of strict/pure vegetarians and vegans with health problems you would find a huge gap. I personally don’t know any vegans who have any health problems as a result of being vegan. I however do know people who have beat cancer and heart problems as a result of eating plant foods. Plus almost all of the things like Salmonella and E.Coli all come from animal sources (vegetables can get it but 99.9999% of the time it is because they are grown in manure from animals)
Besides even if somehow magically eating animals was healthy (which it isn’t) using someone as a slave and murdering someone is wrong, so it is all a moot point.
Anything we get from animals can easily and be better gotten and absorbed from vegetables. Vegetables are easier to digest and process thus gaining more nutrients than we use to digest them.
No vegans wear or use leather or any other animal product nor do they use animals:
“The word ‘veganism’ denotes a philosophy and way of living which seeks to end the idea of animals as property and exclude all forms of intentional exploitation of, use of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing, research or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, including people and the environment.
In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.”
People have had a multitude of diets throughout human history based upon the different areas in which people have lived and the availability of food. For most of human history people ate a mostly plant based diet, with occasional meat. It wasn’t until about 10,000 years ago that humans began to domesticate animals for meat, and then dairy consumption, and thus eating it on a heavy scale. This is the roots of Western Civilization. Actually, our physiology is much closer to a herbivore…
Meat-eaters: have claws
Herbivores: no claws
Humans: no claws
Meat-eaters: have no skin pores and perspire through the tongue
Herbivores: perspire through skin pores
Humans: perspire through skin pores
Meat-eaters: have sharp front teeth for tearing, with no flat molar teeth for grinding
Herbivores: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
Humans: no sharp front teeth, but flat rear molars for grinding
Meat-eaters: have intestinal tract that is only 3 times their body length so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quickly
Herbivores: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.
Humans: have intestinal tract 10-12 times their body length.
Meat-eaters: have strong hydrochloric acid in stomach to digest meat
Herbivores: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
Humans: have stomach acid that is 20 times weaker than that of a meat-eater
Meat-eaters: salivary glands in mouth not needed to pre-digest grains and fruits.
Herbivores: well-developed salivary glands which are necessary to pre-digest grains and fruits
Humans: well-developed salivary glands, which are necessary to pre-digest, grains and fruits
Meat-eaters: have acid saliva with no enzyme ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Herbivores: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
Humans: have alkaline saliva with ptyalin to pre-digest grains
The idea that domestic livestock animals are unaware or unable to suffer is completely false based upon our own biases. All of these animals are intelligent, develop close bonds with one another and suffer emotionally and physically from abuse. We tend to condemn the Chinese for eating dogs and cats, but they can use the same arguments that we use. Pigs are very intelligent, even more intelligent than dogs. I don’t believe we should breed animals to eat, rape and steal from them – even if they no longer exist because we no longer breed them.
It is no longer reasonable to eat meat. Human population has exploded accross the planet. It takes enormous amount of energy, land, and natural resources to produce livestock. They produce massive quantities of waste. According to the UN, animal agriculture is a greater contributer to global warming than all of transportation combined! Perhaps it is time to evolve past eating animals. Just from personal experience, I have been a vegan for 10 years and I was a vegetarian for 20 years. My annual physicals and blood-work is always great. I also do not wear leather and avoid animal products to the best of my ability. Some people might wear leather, but the important thing is limiting animal consumption the best they can and not being perfect.
Others have ably addressed most of your points (we get a lot of practise here as these issues are raised on a daily basis) so I would just like to raise a couple of points:
- are your teeth like those of a lion – big pointy canines – or more like those of a horse?
- modern food animals have been bred for centuries to the point that they are not sustainable in that form – that’s why we need to pump them with growth drugs and medications. However, there are still wild forms of all of them.
- as we have evolved as omnivores, we certainly CAN eat meat, but not to the point where we have it at every meal on every day. Look at the other primates who have a miniscule (like 2%) proportion of meat in their diets. In the case of gorillas, that tiny amount is obtained by accident when they eat leaves that have bugs on them.
- being “born vegan”: you could say it the other way around, that people are raised by their parents to be meat eaters (I know my children have never eaten meat).
- re picking tomatoes etc – plants that we use for food have short life spans. Nature has made many of them incapable of living beyond one or two seasons. It’s just the way they are, it’s nothing to do with pain or whatever you’re trying to suggest. Most plants rely on the length of daylight they receive. Once the days get shorter and there are lower levels of photosynthesis, cellular processes are triggered. It’s got nothing to do with the plant being able to feel cold or whatever. Plants certainly react to cold, but that is due to their cell structure – cell walls burst below a certain temperature and the plant starts to die and decay.
- a venus fly trap does not know that a fly has landed inside. You can trigger it to close with a pencil. There is an automatic reaction when those spikes are touched. They can’t taste anything, as they don’t have taste buds. Their bodies merely absorb the nutrients.
- lastly, with regard to the protein in meat – the majority of vegetarians and vegans don’t supplement their diets with added protein potions. It’s almost impossible not to get enough protein if you’re eating a balanced diet.
Having said all this, I don’t give a rats what you choose to eat, so please don’t lose any sleep over my choice.
For thousands of years “we” have not eaten meat. YOU have eaten meat purely because your parents stuffed it in your mouth.
Five hundred years ago, women with moles were called witches.
A hundred years ago black people weren’t thought to be as uptight as white people.
Some time ago, it was thought that dragons lived in clouds and that a drought meant you’d angered the gods.
So, we HAVe evolved then, and knowing that animals feel pain and scream when they’re cut open is a real factor of evolution now too. Same as becoming smarter, more intelligent and discovering the atom can be split.
So, now we KNOW we don’t need animals to eat, and that animals are emotional same as us. We know we thriv on a vegeatarian diet better etc and we have discovered cancer is higher in meat eating humans ( because the meat eating animals, who are designed to eat meat) is hardly existent.
The ones that don’t eat meat ( or at least very very little) are healthier, it’s a fact.
Of course anyone can eat healthy meat, or unhealthy vegetarian, but lets just say a very healthy meat eating diet and a very healthy vegetarian or vegan diet, is healtheir is much healthier in the non meat diets, as there is no cholesterol , and much more fibre. We never ever need animal cholesterol, and for that reason alone, it’s worth, saying meat is not healthy.. We make our own.
Animals are around with out humans forcible inseminating them. Conservation is different from livestock husbandry.
I love sheep, they’re funny, I certtainly don’t want to eat them, your argument there is ridiculous.
Anyway this subject is boring.
Those “canine Incisors” are nothing compared to the teeth of actual natural meat-eaters,
and are actually had by several herbivorous species. We could also talk about our long intestinal tracts, pathetically-weak stomach acid, sleep patterns, etc, but I’m sure you’ve done your research on those, right?
Evolution by action is not evolution by anatomy. People who were able to digest meat in small quantities had a better chance of survival. That’s about it. Our anatomy is virtually nothing like natural meat eaters’, and everything like natural herbivores.
A species do not have ethical interests. Individuals do.
I would have no problem with a species not existing if the alternative is to be purposefully-bred, confined, and slaughtered in horrific conditions by the billions annually, putrifying the ground water, air, and oceans in the process, so that the privileged few might gorge at every meal on their antibiotic and hormone-laden dead flesh to horrific consequence to their own health.
The experiential capacities of a creature are not contingent on “intellectual knowledge”. Unless you’re honestly-contending that I have ethical right to stab a baby/mentally-disabled individual because they don’t know stuff. Quite silly.
Meat isn’t healthy. It’s nutrients are readily-available elsewhere, without the fat, calories, and cholesterol. Protein is found in nuts, seeds, legumes, and many other plant-based sources. The vast majority of Westerners consume easily triple the amount of needed protein in a day.
All parents choose their children’s diet. That’s a part of the deal. That vegans raising vegan children are not in the statistical majority doesn’t alter their raising offspring to be ethical, mindful of their choices, and health-conscious.
To imply plants have the same experiential capacity as animals is outright laughable. Unless, comparable to my prior hypothetical, you’re asserting that my stabbing the eye of a potato vs the eye of a dog are ethically-equal acts, justifiably. I hope not.
Veganism is a lifestyle and not a diet because veganism denotes a PHILOSOPHY which extends far beyond the practice of abstaining from meat consumption- it is in opposition to human commodification of animals, and the resulting lifestyle involves many aspects. Some vegans wear leather because they had it from before they went vegan. “Wearing” something isn’t the issue- funding the industry producing it via purchasing it is.
All that stuff about history and how we evolved is irrelevant. We also have a history and evolved to have sex with 12 to 16 year old individuals of our own species (anybody old enough to reproduce) but that is no reason why we SHOULD do that.
We have a CHOICE. That makes what is ‘natural’ irrelevant. (Look up the term ‘naturalist fallacy’.) Moral decisions are never based on nature.
Given the fact that I don’t need meat (it’s actually surprisingly easy to get all necessary nutrients without it) I personally choose not to eat it. And no, I don’t need to take protein supplements, I just eat food. I made this choice because – as animals are able to suffer – not eating meat is simply the easiest way to reduce the most suffering in the world with the least effort involved.
Plants are not sentient. They have no central nervous system. They are not able to suffer. And no, when you keep piking tomatoes from a tomato plant it will not die. The tomato plant produces tomatoes to tempt animals to eat them, in order to spread its seeds in their poop. And trees don’t ‘know’ when it’s time to shed their leaves any more than you ‘know’ how to grow your nails. Shedding leaves and growing nails are in themselves no evidence of sentience. I think you need to educate yourself a bit better about biology and the difference between animals and plants.
Firstly we are not going to bite for asking a question, especially when you are merely interested. Problem is that this is the same tired logic that we have to answer from somebody who knows nothing of the vegetarian movement, but thinks they have it all sussed out. Myself before i was vegetarian was one of these people. But thank you for taking the time to research, we are here if you want answering on anything else do i do suggest google searching/yahoo answers searching first as its most likely been answered numerous times
I think people have covered most of your post so i will cover the last 1/4 which i didn’t see answered.
1) ”a tomto plant will eventually wilt and die if we keep picking its fruit”, not entirely true. Plants are extremely resiliant from what i understand they do not have a genetic code to mature & die like animals though i’m sure some will, if given the right conditions they will continue to live. Such has been the case for many species of plants that have lived for centuries/thousands of years.
The whole point of fruit is reproduction, it is symbiotic ie the eater gets nutrition & the plant spreads its seeds. So in short no a plant will not die from picking its fruit
2) how do trees know its time to shed their leaves? Or flowers (correction seeds) know its time to germinate? do they feel the cold or sense time?
Chemical changes & temperature changes & various other factors that are the right conditions. You think that because something is reacting, that it is aware of its surroundings and able to feel. Bacteria when given the right product will consume it & release a by-product, it is living & reacting….but you will not argue that it is able to feel pain (least i hope you wouldn’t). To feel pain is extremely complex, it requires a totally different system in your body (the central nervous system hooked to your spine & brain). Plants are lesser complex, they came before animals & they are less evolved than animals we can tell this by observing the differences between us and them & see more primitive features in plants. They do not have a CNS & no tests have ever shown them to feel pain, the only example i can give you in human terms is when you are cold or afraid the hairs stand up on you. Are you aware of this however & feel it happening? No, what about when you eat food? are you aware of it being digested in your stomach & feel it?…….ability to change to your environment does not mean you are aware of it.
3) the venus fly trap. I think point 2 covered it, you can however google search this for further information. I’m sure a basic ”do plants feel pain” will give you all the info you want
Man, that was just one strawman fallacy after another! Anyway, some relevant counter-points:
1.) Humans do have canine and incisor teeth, but so do most herbivores. If you were to compare our canines to true omnivores (canids, etc…) or carnivores (felids, etc…) you’ll see that ours simply don’t compare. Theirs are significantly longer and wider compared to their other teeth (often more than 4 times the size) – ours are roughly the same size as our other teeth. Likewise, gorillas, deer, pandas, camels, etc… all have canines and incisors, yet all are herbivores. Canine teeth are not exclusive to omnivores and carnivores, nor is their sole evolutionary purpose to tear meat. So, the argument of “we have canines, we’re supposed to eat meat” is biologically fallacious.
2.) We have hunted and farmed, yes. But for just as long, there have been equally as thriving vegetarian human cultures. Humans are opportunistic and adapted so that we can eat whatever is available to us, but that doesn’t mean we NEED to eat everything that has ever been available. Pueblo Indians, for example, were entirely vegetarian, because that was what was easiest to cultivate. In a colder climate (Inuit, etc…) they largely ate meat, because that was easiest. This, however, does not mean humans NEED to a certain thing, just that we can if necessary.
3.) “you just wouldn’t want these animals to exist” LOL! That’s idiotic. No one’s saying they shouldn’t exist, just that, since our agricultural skills have significantly progressed, we no longer need to eat them, and therefore no longer need to raise them for food. What happens to those engineered species would take a natural course that does not involve slaughtering them for food. Of course, I wouldn’t entirely support the end of the meat industry, if only for domestic animals.
4.) Actually, animals are “aware”. This has been scientifically proven. No, they don’t understand our language and may not have an awareness of their ultimate fate, but they’re aware that they’re being mistreated (because they *feel* it), aware that they’re in pain and uncomfortable, etc… A pig, for example, has roughly the intelligence and awareness of a human toddler (scientifically tested by problem solving tasks). So unless you’re arguing that it’s OK to rip toddlers from their parents, throw them into pen in which they have little room to move, inflict harm upon them for the sake of marking and such, and slaughter them before they hit school age, then your argument doesn’t stand. They’re aware and can feel pain, fear (how could something show fear if they weren’t aware?), etc… And therefore it’s wrong to harm or kill any such individual. Just because they don’t have the “intellectual knowledge” (by human society’s own arbitrary standards – but note: there are many animal cultures, mostly wild, which human scientists don’t fully understand, which surely those animals could use against us, no?) doesn’t mean they aren’t sentient beings who are aware of their own surroundings.
5.) Meat is unhealthy. It’s only modestly digestible. Compare plant protein and an animal source, a human will metabolize a larger portion of the plant source than the animal source. Humans are especially prone to meat protein-based illnesses (gout, kidney failure, heart disease, etc…). Those same problems are extremely rare (nearly unheard of) from plant protein sources (which there are many – in fact, various nuts and grains have more protein than meat, but pose fewer health risks). Also, our body produces sufficient cholesterol and doesn’t require outside sources (another meat-related health problem). This isn’t the case for carnivores or even true omnivores (who need some cholesterol in their diet).
6.) Other facts: Our intestinal tract is 10-12x our body length. This is a standard ratio for herbivores. Carnivores have intestinal tracts that are only 3-6x their body length. Omnivores are more similar to carnivores than herbivores (as they still need to digest some meat). We require fiber to pass food – carnivores don’t. Carnivores and true omnivores both have highly acidic saliva (roughly 20x that of a herbivore). Humans don’t. Etc… All of this would suggest that humans are non-obligate herbivores, or opportunistic omnivores, but with our biology/physiology most adequately evolved to a herbivorous diet.